Pandora Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Will X run on the Pandora?

2011-09-29T16:09:32Z

Onpon4: /* Gang Garrison 2 (and other Game Maker games) -- impossible? */ new section

==why is this here==
This serves almost the same purpose as [[Port Requests]] and is very outdated, delete? --[[User:Cheese|Cheese]] 22:47, 15 July 2010 (MEST)
:Yeah, probably. But one thing is worth saving: I like how the color codes are for one column only, unlike in [[emulator list]] where the whole row is a color. This is a useful thing to know for future emulator compatibility lists on the wiki. Also, this color red is much easier on the eyes than the one in the emulator list right now... maybe we should use this one instead... [[User:Esn|Esn]] 01:11, 16 July 2010 (MEST)
:The weird thing is that this article was created months ''after'' the Port Requests article was... the one useful bit of information it has now is mentioning which programs could theoretically be ported, but practically would not work well (i.e. the Sega Saturn emulator). I don't know if that justifies keeping it, though... we should ask the original creator, maybe... [[User:Esn|Esn]] 01:15, 16 July 2010 (MEST)

Justifies it to me. I added it to the main page. Let's see some action here! [[User:Blue Protoman|Blue Protoman]] 15:25, 23 January 2011 (MET)

:I see this page as a good spot for things that are requested but have doubtful chance of getting ported. Basicsally things that are requested and get cut from [[port requests]] [[User:Maplesugarlover|maplesugarlover]] 17:49, 19 February 2011 (MET)

:Would recommend to sync both pages and delete one left. At least please choose a better title while 'X' could be associated to the X server that creates the visual appeareance --[[User:ABC|ABC]] 08:42, 24 April 2011 (MEST)

::with the improbable section I assimilated this page into port requests. That was quite a while ago. This page has not been edited on by blue protoman for over a month. Just delete it or ask him on irc (he is frequently on) . my $0.02 [[User:Maplesugarlover|maplesugarlover]] 21:39, 25 April 2011 (MEST)

:::Sure, but please ask him to join the discussion on this page (in the topic below) so that a record is kept. [[User:Esn|Esn]] 16:48, 26 April 2011 (MEST)

== We need more "It's Possible" entries ==
Anyone mind coming here and telling us what IS possible?

stuff on port request [[User:Maplesugarlover|maplesugarlover]] 17:42, 19 February 2011 (MET)

== To Whoever Added Yabause ==
It's not happening. No, it doesn't matter that the Saturn only runs at 333Mhz. It's got a very complex architecture, and is a bitch to program for, much less emulate. The link you gave was for a '''TEST''' release. As in, just porting it to port it. It runs like crap. [[User:Blue Protoman|Blue Protoman]] 21:31, 18 February 2011 (MET)

== Irrlicht ==

I think there should be an entry for Irrlicht, and it should probably mention [http://celeron.55.lt/~celeron55/minetest/ minetest] [[User:Maplesugarlover|maplesugarlover]] 17:24, 20 February 2011 (MET)

== unportable ==

this page has been assimilated into port requests . http://pandorawiki.org/Port_requests#Unportable [[User:Maplesugarlover|maplesugarlover]] 04:37, 21 March 2011 (MET)
:But not entirely, it seems; you don't have the different degrees between "possible" and "impossible" that are present here. Also, please explain your reasoning: what is the benefit of having both "port requests" and "unportable" things on one page? [[User:Esn|Esn]] 19:35, 21 March 2011 (MET)
:: people often only see stuff on will x run , so they think it was never added. I could ask what the advantage of having unreleased stuff on the software list is. If the source is available and its not already ported.add it to port request. What makes something impossible? Its not closed stuff, it can be modified. Unportable is really just a "really difficult" section. Only stuff I would call impossible is full speed on mess,mame,dolphin and pcsx2. Not really sure about the "unportable" emulators [[User:Maplesugarlover|maplesugarlover]] 20:46, 21 March 2011 (MET)
:::"I could ask what the advantage of having unreleased stuff on the software list is." - one advantage is that it's easier for the people updating the page to move a project between sections from "unreleased" to "released", if a project that was being worked on gets released. I'll grant that that section on the "software projects" list isn't very organized right now; when I get a bit of time, I'm going to make it more like the unreleased "games" list, which is properly sourced so you can see when the last update was and if a project is likely to still be being worked on or not.
:::About terminology: When I read "unportable", to me that means "''impossible''" not "really difficult", so you might want to clarify that. I think I like the different degrees on this page better than a black/white "portable/unportable" - seems to capture the ambiguity of some of this stuff more. You say yourself that you're unsure about where some of it should go. [[User:Esn|Esn]] 00:25, 22 March 2011 (MET)
:::: so I'll rename it to improbable . normal stuff goes in its section. stuff with source that is unlikely to be ported can be moved to improbable section [[User:Maplesugarlover|maplesugarlover]] 00:47, 22 March 2011 (MET)
:::::Thanks, that seems a lot more clear. Seems like this page still has a use, though, because it also covers things for which the source code is ''not'' available (or available, but with conditions such as at least 50,000 Pandoras sold). My view is that this page is meant to be more of a visible guide for newbies about what ''not to ask about''. It's a bit ill-defined, but it's just meant to cover some of the more frequently asked-about programs that won't be able to run. [[User:Esn|Esn]] 02:15, 22 March 2011 (MET)

::::::I'm not sure this page is really worthwhile having around... it's a similar situation as deciding to put the unreleased games on the games list, and well, I know you're (Esn) an advocate of that. The unique content here can easily find it's way onto port requests, a page that many already know about (they will look there first). The newbie reasoning is valid, but I think type of people who might think running proprietary Windows software is possible wouldn't be the kind of people to read through a wiki before asking (besides, if they do, the main [[Pandora]] article specifically states that it wont do it). --[[User:Cheese|Cheese]] 05:56, 22 March 2011 (MET)

:::::::Well, I'm not sure it's ''quite'' the same... the "unreleased" sections are largely meant to be for a historical/news record, not for a newbie-guide. The inclusion criteria is fairly precise: must be something that is/may be/was being worked on, of which some record exists. The inclusion criteria for this page is not defined as precisely - its main purpose really (it seems to me) is to answer some of the more common newbie questions about what can run. OBVIOUSLY, it cannot contain EVERYTHING that the Pandora cannot run. So its main goal, then (if we accept that that is its main reason for being), is to be simple and visible, and elastic to the need at hand (so if we notice a lot of newbies begin asking about program X, we'd include that program in this article in the hope that they'll ask about it less).
:::::::Also, the "unreleased" sections are in the same articles partly because "it's easier for the editor"; on the other hand, I don't foresee any programs being moved from "improbable/unportable" to the other "port requests" sections (maybe the other way around... I guess that makes sense - could make things a bit easier for maplesugarlover, ''if'' he plans to move every undoable port request into the new section, instead of just deleting it). Also, the reason why I support "unreleased" sections in the three software pages instead of one "unreleased" page is similar to why there are three software lists, instead of one list for everything; the table structure that they require is different. They're also the three major categories both in Pandora Apps and on the File Archive. If you were to split them up into a separate article (like maplesugarlover tried a while back), the table structure would ''still'' be different - they'd still be split up - but now you have 4 articles instead of 3, and things are harder for the editors.
:::::::Since BlueProtoman is the guy who originally conceived of this page in its current form, I'd like him to weigh in. [[User:Esn|Esn]] 06:43, 22 March 2011 (MET)

== Gang Garrison 2 (and other Game Maker games) -- impossible? ==

While it's true that Game Maker cannot run on the Pandora, there is a project in development right now called ENIGMA ([http://enigma-dev.org/]) which is supposed to compile Game Maker games (after converting code into C++ code). It uses SDL and OpenGL, so it should work on the Pandora. [[User:Onpon4|Onpon4]] 18:09, 29 September 2011 (CEST)

USB reference

2011-09-18T23:26:50Z

Onpon4: Added some missing info that caused me a lot of frustration trying to get data transfer to work.

==Readme First!==

If you have a question to ask, that isn't covered in this FAQ already, please ask over on the [http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?showforum=61 Forums].

==USB FAQ==

===How many USB ports does Pandora have?===
Pandora has two USB ports:
* 1x USB 2.0 host port (USB standard-A receptacle)
* 1x USB 1.1/2.0 OTG port (USB mini-AB receptacle)

===What does “host port” mean?===
A USB host port “hosts” any device that you plug in, just like the USB ports on your computer. Pandora’s full size USB A port can host USB 2.0 devices (only if they are '''high speed compliant'''!), and provide up to 500mA (the maximum allowed according to USB standards).

===What does “OTG” mean?===
OTG stands for On The Go. USB OTG ports can operate in two different modes. When connected through this port, the Pandora can act as a device, for example when connected to a computer for charging & data transfer. For this mode, you need a standard-A to mini-B cable. However, the Pandora can also act as a host port for USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 devices. For details on how to make the necessary cable connection, see [[USB_reference#OTG_host_mode|the OTG host mode section]]. This port can supply a maximum of 100mA in host mode. Although this port implements On The Go functionality, it can not get an official On The Go certification because the OTG specification requires a device to have exactly one USB port. (The Pandora has two.) Also, the mini-AB connector used on the Pandora has been taken out of the specification in 2007 (but is still widely adopted).

===What’s all this stuff about USB 1.1 and USB 2.0? Isn’t USB, uh, universal?===
USB 1.1 is a subset of the USB 2.0 protocol. Among many other things, the USB 2.0 standard introduced high-speed data transmission, which requires a special controller on the host side. Most USB ports (eg. on your computer’s motherboard, in USB hubs) actually contain '''two chips''' to allow universal compatibility – one that takes care of the Low-Speed (1.0 Mbit/s) and Full-Speed (12 Mbit/s) devices, and another one for the Hi-Speed (480 Mbit/s) devices. The reason is that Low-Speed and Full-Speed are essentially the same protocols operated at different clock frequencies. Hi-Speed is a completely new development and nothing like the other two.

For reasons beyond our control, Pandora’s USB standard-A host port does not contain this second chip. Only USB 2.0 devices bearing the “USB HI-SPEED” logo can be plugged directly into this port. However, USB 1.1 devices can be connected to this port through a USB hub, provided the hub bears the “USB HI-SPEED” logo.

Pandora’s USB OTG (mini-AB) port is fully compatible with both USB 1.1 and USB 2.0, allowing it to host either type of device.

===So which devices are which?===
[[Image:USB-HighSpeed-certified-Logo.png|thumb|alt=USB High Speed Certified logo|Devices bearing this logo are certified High Speed devices. They can be plugged directly into Pandora's USB 2.0 host port.]]
There are no set rules. As a very general guide:
* Common Low-Speed and Full-Speed devices include keyboards, mice, headsets, older USB devices.
* Common Hi-Speed devices include cameras, PMPs, HDDs, hubs, card readers, thumb drives.
This is just a rough representation of what’s out there in the wild, and you will find exceptions. Devices like HSDPA modems and GPS units could fall into either category. The only reliable indication of true Hi-Speed compatibility is the “USB Hi-Speed Certified” logo (right).

===Arrgh, USB used to be simple. What can I actually connect to Pandora?===
Almost anything, as long as it's supported by Linux. Think of a USB device that everybody uses (mouse, keyboard, thumb drive...) and chances are it will be a simple matter of plug and play. But this might not be the case for more specialised USB devices (modems, ethernet adapters, USB displays...), many of which will only function with Windows specific drivers.

If you intend to purchase USB accessories for use with Pandora, you should first research Linux support for that type of device. Devices already tested on Pandora will be added to the [[USB compatibility list]].

The various USB connection scenarios are as follows:

==Pandora as USB slave==
[[Image:Pandora.usb.slave.png|thumb|alt=Pandora as USB slave|Pandora as USB slave]]
Using a USB standard-A to mini-B cable (the kind you probably own several of), you can:
* Transfer data to/from Pandora
* Charge Pandora's battery.

To enable data transfer for SD cards, run SD-Mass Storage (in the System category).

'''Note:'''
* Charging Pandora from your computer's USB port is best done with Pandora in standby mode. The current provided by your computer will probably not be sufficient to provide a quick charge while Pandora is being used.
* There are USB standard-A to mini-B cables that can be used to charge your Pandora but don't work to transfer data to/ from the Pandora! MSWindows will complain abount "An unknown device connected". Try using a different cable.

==Hosting USB devices==
[[Image:Pandora.usb.host.png|thumb|alt=Pandora as a USB host|Pandora as a USB host]]
*Directly plug in a Hi-Speed USB 2.0 device such as a thumb drive, or a Huawei E160 modem.
*Using a USB standard-A to USB standard-B (or mini-B, micro-B, depending on what's on the device) cable, connect Hi-Speed USB 2.0 devices such as cameras, PMPs, and HDDS.
*Connect a USB hub, which will enable you to to connect other non-Hi-Speed USB devices such as keyboards, mice, or a Huawei E220 modem.

'''Note:'''
*This port can supply a maximum of 500mA. If you plan to use a USB HDD, note that very few of these can draw sufficient power from a single USB port. A powered HDD caddy or powered USB hub will be necessary in most cases.

==OTG host mode==
[[Image:Pandora.usb.otg.host.png|thumb|alt=Pandora in OTG host mode|Pandora in OTG host mode]]
How you connect a device to the mini-AB OTG port depends on the device's USB connector.
*standard-B receptacle: Use a mini-A to standard-B cable.
*mini-B receptacle: Use a mini-A to mini-B cable.
*micro-B receptacle: Use a mini-A plug to standard-A receptacle adapter and a standard-A to micro-B cable.
*standard-A plug: Use a mini-A plug to standard-A receptacle adapter.
*mini-A plug: No extra cable or adapter needed.
*micro-A plug: No standardized solution exists.

This port allows you to connect any USB 2.0-compliant device (Hi-Speed, Full-Speed, Low-Speed, including USB 1.1 ones) directly, without the use of a hub.

'''Notes:'''
*mini-A and mini-AB connectors have been removed from the present USB standard. This means that the above connectors may vanish from the market at some point (although there will probably be demand for them for some time). There are a lot of connectors available that were never standardized. It is recommended that you do not use them as they may lead to non-working connections. Stick to the cables and adapters mentioned above and look for a mention of "OTG" or "On The Go" and you should be on the safe side.
*In host mode, this port can supply a maximum of 100mA. USB 1.1 devices that draw more than 100mA will need to connect to Pandora's other USB port via a hub, as depicted in the previous example. The Huawei E220 is one such device.
*If you have trouble connecting any device to the small OTG port, check if 'Setting->Startup->Enable/Disable services on boot->Start USB Network on bootup' is checked! This needs to be set in order to work. Default setting is unchecked (better naming of this option <strike>is planned for Hotfix5</strike> has not been included in HotFix 5, see [http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?/topic/56516-wishlist-for-hf5/]).

'''Host mode connector'''
[[Image:Mini-usb.png|thumb|Mini-B and Mini-A comparison]]
Shown here are a Mini-B connector (left, black) and a Mini-A connector (right, white). The mini-A connector should be the one you want in order to use the OTG port in host mode. Click on the image for a larger version.

With the right connector, it is not necessary to switch the mode of the port[http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?/topic/55396-how-do-you-put-the-usb-otg-port-into-host-mode/], it will be done automatically. It may also be possible to force a mode switch, but this has not been clarified by the devs, and could result in two devices both attempting to power the port (which is not recommended)

==Links==
*[[USB_compatibility_list|Pandora USB compatibility list]]
*[http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/usb_20_122208.zip USB 2.0 Standard (including present OTG spec)]
*[http://www.usb.org/developers/onthego/otg1_0.pdf Original OTG Specification defining mini-A and mini-AB and allowed connections]
*[http://www.usb.org/developers/Deprecation_Announcement_052507.pdf mini-A and mini-AB Deprecation Announcement]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB Wikipedia page on USB]
*[http://www.retrousb.com/index.php?categoryID=79 Retro USB Game Controllers and Ports]

[[Category:USB]]